fury

May. 26th, 2002 08:13 pm
dragonlady7: self-portrait but it's mostly the DSLR in my hands in the mirror (linedragon)
[personal profile] dragonlady7

This:
is infuriating.
It is the flier for a certain singer/songwriter's midwest tour. (read the press release here...)
She sent the URL to Darius and he read it and was like hm, that's, um, interesting, and she was like oh of course it's highly fictionalized.
Well, yes, it is, in fact; he broke up with her in person (sure, it was mutual. Just, he was the first one to say that he didn't think it was gonna work.), and she never in fact wrote him a Dear John letter; I wasn't involved in the relationship or anything but I certainly heard all about it and really, I failed to notice any selfishness or cowardice on his part.
I can understand titling a tour after an event. Sure. If I'd just broken up with my boyfriend, and the person I was touring with had also just broken up with his boyfriend, i can see how that'd be a cute theme for a tour. Having the tour flier be a Dear John letter is... sort of... meh. Sure. I can see it working. But ... well, maybe I'm just prejudiced because I think the graphic design is poor.
My real problem lies in the letter's content. If you're going to fictionalize a real event, do so in a way that makes it more preposessing. Adding specific details can add color, sure. But in this particular example, the details add no color. It's just not well-written. The detail about stealing his guitar could be cool. The bits about selfishness and cowardice, not so much. They're a not-so-great mix of cliche and vagueness. "due to your selfishness and cowardice." What? What does that give me? That doesn't give me anything. i've dated selfish and cowardly people, but being hit over the head with adjectives isn't going to give me the gut-punch that a recognizable example of selfish cowardice would. The bit about Behind the Music is funny-- why couldn't the whole thing have been funny? I would've dug that.
As it is, she comes across as bitter, insecure, and overdramatic.
Maybe nobody else'll actually read the thing, and the idea will remain cute.
The second flier, which I assume the other guy on the tour wrote, is ... okay. I can deal. Bitter, accusatory, but safely anonymous and nonspecific. We can empathize with a selfish and self-centered lover. That's universal. We all have fantasies of telling the whole world what a bastard our ex was, and that letter appeals to that.
But... really, the closing line in hers-- it's illegible, because it goes over the black part of one photo, so the last line ends with "for that special amp". What? I can't empathize with "that special amp"; i wouldn't even be sure what an amp was if I hadn't been there playing with the amp too ... it's just not a universally understandable and appealing example to, I dunno, round out the "selfishness/cowardice" adjective-smack.
So yes. Bitter ranting, that's what I do in lj. I do not bitterly rant in tour fliers. maybe that's because I don't write tour fliers. But for fuck's sake, i could write a better one than that in my sleep.
know what, i'm pretty sleepy, so i think i'm going to.
So many ways to go. You could do a bittersweet thing-- there have been some beautiful songs written on the topic of a wonderful lover with whom you discover that you're just... not ... compatible... a sort of:
i'm so sorry, but i gotta go do my thing; i can't be me with you. i'll always love you in my memory but i hope to never see you again--
shit like that is killer.
or bitter:
you bastard, you destroyed my sense of self, you make me feel inadequate, I was just another diversion to entertain you all along and i'm sick of it, so i'm going as far away from you as i can and i'm gonna rediscover myself and you can bet your ass i'm going to tell the world what an asshole you were.
or funny:
dear john, i'm leaving you for a tractor. i've decided i need urgently to take up a career in farming, as far from you as possible, in a lovely place where they'll pay me to sing my music. I've stolen your guitar because you don't play it enough and i'm better anyway. My agent will contact you about Behind The Music appearances; please don't follow me, my mind's made up. When i'm famous I'll be sure to tell everyone that your penis is inversely proportional to your ego in size and swelling.
p.s. i forgot my t-shirt. could you mail it to my mom's address? i'm not telling you mine, you sick stalker freak.

those would be funny (if, you know, they were developed into a real version, rather than a concept sketch). they would work with the theme. they would attract people who aren't already fans to the show. They'd be a little edgy. Punchy. Dramatic.
and they would be a proper use of fictionalization.

the problem with fictionalizing real life, is that your real life has too much of you in it. it's impossible to properly separate reality from what you can really change. your emotions dictate the changes you make far more than they should. it's not fair to you, and it's not fair to those you're including.
and it's often not very good. when you're that close to something, in that you've actually lived it, if you care too much, it's too hard to see what's actually good for other people, and what just feels good to you. you can't see monet's water lilies when you're too close to them; he couldn't have painted something so beautiful from so close. he stood back, and you have to stand back.
just so with fictionalizing real life. you have to stand back. you have to excise the parts that just feel good. murder all your darlings, as either chekov or whatsisname said. take the sentences you love the best (in the case of fiction, or the details you love the best in the case of nonfiction), and put them on trial. if they deserve to live, they live, but if they don't, you must be merciless and swift in their death.
she didn't bother with a trial, and vigilante justice has resulted in sloppiness. i would never be that inconsiderate, even to a bastard that i dumped for excellent reasons. Sure I'd rip into him/her in my livejournal, but I wouldn't post fliers about it. i'm sorry, but i've lost a lot of respect for her. it just seems that she's handled this really immaturely and inconsiderately.
i mean, maybe it's because she knows that darius' feelings are pretty impossible to hurt. i'm certainly more offended than he is. but i don't think that's what she's thinking. so, i just don't think it's a good flier [seeing that flier wouldn't inspire me to go see a show. hm, people whining about their ex-lovers? and inarticulately? no thanks], and i think it's really inconsiderate to darius, and i think it's irresponsible from the standpoint of fictionalization of real life.
And the graphic design is amateur at best. I know, I do a lot of really amateur graphic design, that's not very good. I know it when I see it.
Thoughts, anyone? Am I merely too close to this? Or am I right to think it's pretty nasty?

Sheesh.

Date: 2002-05-26 06:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crakor.livejournal.com
It's a rather piss poor flier at best....

But also it's stupid, sure putting on an act for a show is one thing, but a lot of that is just pointless

boo fuckin hoo

Date: 2002-06-03 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
jesus. stop your bitching. it's art. and as for ripping her flier to pieces - may i take a moment to rip your entry to pieces. why not DECIDE what you're upset about okay? Is it the crappy flier or the letter. pick one and stick with it. And as for your brilliant entry -- take note. No one knew who the letter was about. most people still don't know who "darius" is. But then your brilliant ass gets the idea to make it attached to a name. You claim the other letter is "safely anonymous" but in fact it is no more anonymous than the first letter. The friends of the other singer's ex probably know who it is about too - and they may feel the same way as you do. But then you go and alert the entire internet community to WHO it is about...so if you want to bitch about it being not anonymous -- how about looking at you because you attached a name to it.
Sheesh.
Dumbass.

Re: boo fuckin hoo

Date: 2002-06-03 10:09 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You apparently don't read this journal much. If you did, you'd find that reason often takes a back seat. However, as it's a liveJOURNAL, who gives a rat's ass? Well, except the "entire internet community," or at least, the subset of that who reads this site...

If you want fairness, start your own livejournal and bitch about her ex-flames there. I'm sure she'll happily do it on tour for you. But you want a rational debate? For fuck's sake, this is relationship shit and as dysfunctional as your mom. As Ms Lin's crony, you're clearly in her corner, but this is a hostile arena. Don't take this advice too hard, but nobody cares what you have to say.

I've never heard or met Ms. Lin, but if the whinging in her fliers is representative of her music, count me out.

Re: boo fuckin hoom part I (i love this stuff)

Date: 2002-06-04 09:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragonlady7.livejournal.com
1) my name's not Jesus.
2) why must I stop my bitching?
a) if people stopped their bitching, livejournal would cease to exist
b) I have a constitutional right to bitch if I like, and I'd be interested to know on what legal grounds you plan to stop that.
3) It's ART? You call that art? Look, pal, I'm not saying that art can only be narrowly defined, but by her own admission it's nothing of the sort. I spoke to her about it personally and she said it was something she simply threw together without thought. So, art it is not, by her own admission. Call off your dogs, kiddo. I'm not some entirely random punk, so smacking me down like one isn't going to be conclusive when I've got more insider info than you. And... since when is slandering one's ex art? It'd have to be a hell of a lot more thought-provoking than it is to justify its bitchiness.
4) you're more than welcome to rip my entry to pieces, but I have to say that I'll probably win because I seem to be able to put an argument together. Thanks.

Why do I have to pick one and stick with it? You're flailing for something to bitch me out about. Nowhere did I say that I was only criticizing one. It was the whole thing that bugged me. Why must I decide what I'm upset about? Is one not an integral part of the other? Was part of my point not that if one were good, I could forgive the other? So I'd say your first point is pretty shite, as points go, and I'd venture to guess that not only are you partisan, you're also incompetent.

My brilliant entry. Why thanks; I was just ranting, but if you wanna elevate it go for it.

Nobody knew who this "darius" is? Except me, and all my close friends. And they already knew. I mean, say what you like about Annie, but I will say this-- she's monogamous. ANd anyone in darius' life, like me, and my friends, know he's also monogamous. So if his recent ex is posting fliers about her piece-of-shit-ex-boyfriend, anyone who knows him is gonna know who they're referring to. Named or not.
Anyone who reads this journal and doesn't know darius isn't going to get to know him that much better from this. So your point's pretty irrelevant. If I'd posted his last name, address, phone number, screen name, high school yearbook photo, and place of employment, maybe. But I haven't. He could be fictional for all you know. The Internet's a funny place; one of my journals is entirely fictional, and I bet if you random-searched livejournal.com for it all day you'd never figure out who it was.

The friends of the other singer's ex can feel how they like. I was just saying that it contained no specific details-- no tales of his search for "the perfect amp" (which happened), tales of how he'll appear on VH1 someday (which has been considerably discussed), etc. The other singer wrote a more universal letter. Perhaps because his relationship was more geared for that; I never speculated.
So, I stick by what I've said.

As for you. shall we address you?
Firstly, I notice that you have tremendous bravery, in signing your name to an obviously personal post. You're a true friend to Annie, and I'm sure she'd be flattered by your courage and selflessness, putting yourself on the line like that.
Secondly, you haven't yet made a rational point. If you want to hysterically flail at my post, fine. But realize that your "rip[ping] my entry to pieces" is nothing of the sort; that could only be accomplished with logic, or relevance, and you've presented neither. I mean, sure, you could print it out and rip it up, but unless you've got considerable hacking skills, you'd be hard-pressed to actually touch the original.
Thirdly, I've discussed this with everyone involved, and if you'd like a copy of those conversations, that could be provided. Except it won't be, because I don't think you possess any sort of innate logic that could process the results. You're obviously not interested in rational discussion; in which case, you're quite an excellent counterpoint to the hero you so brilliantly defend here. But that's another topic, which I won't discuss.

Re: boo fuckin hoo part 2

Date: 2002-06-04 09:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragonlady7.livejournal.com
In conclusion:

So I'd recommend that if you want to start a flame war, go find a talkboard where everybody's anonymous. I settle my arguments with logic, even if my posts are more based on emotion. You can abuse me if you like but if that's all you're interested in I won't play.
So, in conclusion, fuck off if you don't like what you read. This is a personal journal. I am under no obligation to make you happy. I stick by what I've written. Take it or leave it. The door's open.


and to my anonymous defender: Thank you! It's nice to be defended. Half the time it's just fun to laugh at flamers, but it's nice to have someone take my side and likewise point out the obvious. ;D

Re: boo fuckin hoo part 2

Date: 2002-06-05 10:51 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
And I have my "constitutional right" to sit here and say you're bogus as hell -- and may I also take a moment to add -> who fuckin says "constitutional right" anymore? That's like a fourth grader saying "so sue me," on the playground. The letters were similar in their anonyminity and the other letter from work I have done and found out - DOES contain personal information...which you do not know because you don't know the situation. You're bogus. Your entry is bogus. And if you wanna say things like "I can bitch all I want and just don't read it if you don't want to" or something along those lines - i say this...I wouldn't have even read it if you hadn't put a horribly ridiculous journal entry up regarding a girl who doesn't need to have things like that said about her -- especially not from some self-righteous bitch like you.

Re: boo fuckin hoo part 2

Date: 2002-06-05 11:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragonlady7.livejournal.com
Who said you had to read it?
So you're saying that you don't read my journal, and you didn't stumble upon this randomly. You must have been directed to it. So you were obligated to read it; reading my journal is not my choice.
Well, let me reiterate, this is a private personal journal. I don't know who sicced you on me, but really, you don't have to defend Annie. I do know her personally, and as such, I am not making an uninformed decision to object to this flier. I have discussed the matter with her and am satisfied with the result, hence my later entries on this topic (which you can't read, as they are privacy-protected, being intended only for people I know who care about the issue). So there's little you could say on this topic. (which, incidentally, i wrote about quite a while ago, if you note the date; which is how i know that either you had several hours on your hands and a long attention span, or you were given a direct link to this post.)
I will say that I would take your defense of her far more seriously if you had the balls to tell me who you were, rather than leaving it up to me to find out. As far as I know, you could well BE her (except that I know I've already discussed this with her, and you don't sound like her). But I'm guessing from the tone that you're either one of her stalkers or her fanboys (though I will say, I did stalker-proof this journal, so you couldn't have found it in a search for her. So she must have directed you to it, or someone she knows. Which really doesn't reflect well on her either). With a lot of time and vitriol on your hands.
I disbelieve you when you say that the other letter contained personal information; if you could provide me with some proof, I'd admit your point, but you're not coming across as terribly credible. As it is, all I said initially about it was that while it also wasn't terribly well-written, it at least didn't seem so personally directed. Surely it would be hurtful to his former-S.O. to read, but at least it was vague and perhaps passingly universal. (I haven't re-read it since this post, incidentally, as it's not all that important to me; if you give me a reason to, i'll bother, but otherwise, no.)
So, my point is that while you may rant and rave against me and call me bogus as hell for using the phrase 'constitutional right' (sorry, I'm not really up on what 4th-graders say on the playground; that was a good number of years ago now for me, and i'm sure styles have changed. Good thing you're an expert, to keep me up on things), I have a perfect right to laugh at you. This is my journal, where it's my hobby to rant and rave. You, poor punter, have bothered to come here, wade through the muck of my brain-emptying, at least pretend to do research, and check back every day to see whether i've answered your semiliterate howlings! You have yet to raise one legitimate objection to this entry, or provide me with any reason to change how I think. And you've set yourself up to be heartily ridiculed. Congratulations, you're an idiot. Have a nice day, and tune in next time for a brand new episode of "what we do to anonymous flamers"...

Re: boo fuckin hoo part 2

Date: 2002-06-05 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragonlady7.livejournal.com
"I wouldn't have even read it if you hadn't put a horribly ridiculous journal entry up regarding a girl who doesn't need to have things like that said about her -- "



i have another point to make, now that my blood's up (have i mentioned how profoundly bored i am? a good argument is the only thing that could get me going nowadays...)

"a girl who doesn't need to have things like that said about her"

That's the best line of this whole exchange.

If she doesn't need to have things like that said about her, then why was she so thoughtless about people she ostensibly cares about?
It's a well-known fact that if you don't want rocks thrown at you, you shouldn't start throwing them.
Darius is a friend of mine, who I've known for a while. While he seems fine with all of this, i know that he's going through a difficult time of life just now, and I'd venture a guess that he doesn't really need to have things said about him like she did. In the first place. In that flier. Remember the flier?
So I've posted a rant on the topic in a personal journal, read mostly by friends of mine (and stalkers of those friends, and stalkers of those friends' stalkers, it seems) to defend a friend of mine. A housemate, who I lived with for a year, and who I've known for more than two. A person who has been very important to my life in the recent past. A person whose life I felt I was involved in, for a time, as he was in mine. In short, a personal friend. (Funny. A personal journal about a personal friend?)

You are posting in my personal journal... why? Who are you, and why is this your business? How did you find this? Annie's a close friend to you, and you know that what I'm saying is inaccurate? You have some information to contribute, that I was unaware of, that negates my argument, and proves that what I have objected to in the above entry was in fact inaccurate?

You're saying that what Annie wrote, in that flier, was well-considered and thoughtful. She was entirely right to fictionalize portions of it at will, but leave enough of it unaltered to be hurtful to the other person involved. She has done no wrong, and should never be criticized.

Look, buddy. She said herself that she threw that flier together without really considering it, and didn't expect that Darius would read it. (Though she herself sent an IM to him with the link to the press release. And she knows fine well that he gets the e-mails, and is, in fact, still a fan of her music, which was ostensibly the point in the first place.) I don't think you have a leg to stand on, my child.You're not even trying to say that what Annie wrote was right. You're simply attacking my right to say what I think about her. Which is neither logical, nor correct, nor even appropriate.

And I'm sorry, honey, but if somebody wants to be a public figure, such as a singer, that somebody is going to have to accept that if someone else has a problem with what they do, publicly, that someone else has a perfect right to express her dissatisfaction. Annie knows that if she has a problem with what I've written, she can talk to me. And she has. The fact remains, I still consider her flier offensive. I also find it offensive that after speaking to me for two hours about it, she has decided that rather than face the fact that I may have a point (that point being that she has entirely failed to take Darius' feelings into account throughout this matter), instead the problem must be that I hate her. And apparently she's whining about this to uninvolved people, such as yourself. (I don't know that. I could well be wrong. In fact, I hope I'm wrong.)
I'd say that makes my point better than anything further I could have said on the matter. Pretty neatly, in fact.
Don't you agree?

Which means: She DOES need to have things like that said about her.
point to me. go ahead, try and take it back.

Re: boo fuckin hoo part 2

Date: 2002-06-05 08:04 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
grow the fuck up, dude. did you even read what she wrote, or were you just pissed off that she wrote anything at all?
-F.

Re: boo fuckin hoo part 2

Date: 2002-06-05 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Sometimes honesty hurts.

Everyone has found this out over time, and no one understands better than Brian W. Spencer.

Re: boo fuckin hoo part 2

Date: 2002-06-06 11:53 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
i.)What she wrote was okay.

I am saying that.

ii.)Stalkers or fanboys....you wanted me to tell you that you are wrong. You are wrong.

iii.)I know more than you think I know. I need not prove that to you.

iv.)What does Brian W. Spoencer's bio have to do with this?

v.)Thank you.

Re: boo fuckin hoo part 2

Date: 2002-06-06 12:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragonlady7.livejournal.com
i) she did nothing wrong in selfishly trampling on the feelings of someone she claims to have cared for deeply. So that's your basis for attacking me. Good to know, finally. Obviously your great success in love is where you're drawing this conclusion from.

ii) and iv) So you're neither a stalker nor a fanboy. If you check my more recent posts, yes, we've figured that out. So what does that leave? Former tour-mate. Good sleuthing, Holmes.
(if you're not him, then you write just like his bio, punctuation and all, and are awfully read-up on what it contains.)

iii) you need not prove anything to me, but can merely fling accusatory names at me with nothing to back that up? Good thing you're not planning on being a lawyer too, because you'd be a shitty one.

iv) if you are, in fact, Brian W. Spencer, rather than someone unconnected who is posting from his hometown and that's just how they write there, then you should know just how much honesty does hurt. Which is what my case is based on: honesty.

v) you're welcome. Feel free to fuck off before we do more evil things to you.

here, let me help you.

Date: 2002-06-06 12:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragonlady7.livejournal.com
number one: on What We Do To Anonymous Flamers (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=dragonlady7&itemid=118109)

number two: On Our Results From Number One (http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=dragonlady7&itemid=118456)

are the posts where we determined who you were, where you were, and why you were writing. if you care to refute our reasoning, now's the time.

also, here (http://www.livejournal.com/talkpost.bml?journal=dragonlady7&itemid=118896)
is where we interviewed annie with our suspicions.
There are some others, but I thought I'd save you the hassle of wading through my personal journal too much, though you didn't mind in the first place to find this post... still, it took you two weeks after i'd sorted things out with annie (unless she was lying or something) to get to it, and i don't feel like waiting that long again.
c'mon, jump in, defend yourself.
But you're outnumbered.

Re: here, let me help you.

Date: 2002-06-06 12:30 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Lovely.
Wrong.
I read your post a substantial amount of time before I responded, as I felt the need to decide whether or not to actually take the time to respond. You may think what you like about my identity. I will tell you that your location indicator is in fact right. However, your intuitive random stabs at WHO I am are not quite as correct. It doesn't matter to me either way because as a fan of Annie's and Brian's it won't make any difference to me or probably him for that matter that his name is in your journal. More hits for his site. I am sure he would thank you if he knew.

Re: here, let me help you.

Date: 2002-06-06 12:53 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
So you ARE a fanboy/girl!!

Kudos to you for being able to stomach more self-indulgent musical mediocrity than me.

So piss off, anonymous defender! Even the people you're blindly making livejournal love to don't care anymore. Are Ms. Lin and Mr. Spencer so hard up for fans that they take them foaming at the mouth? It's not like you have to impress them to get an autograph, the lines are plenty short.

Re: here, let me help you.

Date: 2002-06-06 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragonlady7.livejournal.com
I think, oddly, I disagree. I appreciate being defended, but I think we're all on the wrong side here.
Let me explain.

You (I'm talking to my original flamer, here, Mr. I Insist That I Remain Anonymous, not the person I'm directly replying to, who's also anonymous but at least not abusing me) have made absolutely no progress in getting your point across, and in fact have yet to make a point at all, which is starting to give me some ideas. I'm starting to suspect, because of your shiftiness and self-contradiction when asked to identify yourself, that you're simply a troll, and you're using my journal for some sick way of getting at Annie.
No really, fellas. Think about it. You (again to Mr. Insistently Anonymous) haven't really defended her, just said that she's right and I'm wrong and I'm a dumbass bogus bitch, and you haven't backed any of it up. That's troll talk.
You may still claim that you were only defending her, in your incompetent way, but think of the consequences: I, in concern over this delayed attack, contacted her about it-- thereby stirring up the issue for her as well and inflicting more trauma on her dear delicate self, since the first time was oh so traumatic for her. There's one.
Two: you've generated a whole bunch of hostility towards this Brian character who you resemble but claim not to be. If you are not, in fact, him, then you've made him a whole bunch of enemies. That's really not fair to him, not at all. You're sick!

I would never be so underhanded if I had a vendetta against someone-- I would tell them to their face, not stir up trouble behind their backs! As I think this post is demonstration of. (One could argue that I should have emailed her privately, but at the time I knew she read it, and I didn't actually want to start an email war-- I posted it for the benefit of friends who read this, asking their opinion, and figured that if she wanted to discuss it, she could. That's more how I work. If she hadn't responded, I would eventually have probably emailed her to let her know what I thought. I'm pretty straightforward.)

I think you're sick, and evil. And the biggest fucking coward I've ever met. Using someone's god damn personal journal to get at somebody you have a problem with-- tell her to her god damn face! She's a reasonable person, she'll talk to you-- I know this, firsthand! I've had problems with her, I've talked them out! Really! She's kind of abrasive, but if you know her, she's not so bad. I feel bad now that I suspected her of involving you in this, and said mean things about her for that. And I resent you for manipulating me like that. That was underhanded and disgusting. Take care of your own damn business! If you want to stalk her and cause problems for her, flame her yourself! I'm not falling for it anymore. She and I have already discussed all this like adults, and we're on perfectly cordial terms. I'm not letting you stir up things just to hurt her-- I still believe that she needs criticism when she's done wrong, but she does NOT need to be harassed on account of no-good third-party stalkers. Get a fucking life, and learn to confront your problems yourself. Leave me out of your mentally-ill schemings.

To The Anonymous 'Boo Hoo' writer . . .

Date: 2002-06-06 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Dear Sir or Madam:
Before I lay into you as well, I will let you know that I was directed here by the Dragonlady. You may take issue with what I say, and my lack of knowledge of the people. That's just fine. Maybe you should with that.
But what I have issue with is this very loose and free definition of
"free speech". As an artist with a Bachelor Degree in Fine Arts, I have been forced to deal with what you, the obviously unitiated, would call 'art issues'. Yes, I do write. Attack what you will. You have not read any of my writings, so please hesitate to scathe what you do not know. No I have not read this Annie's writing about this Darius fellow, but if it as it was described to me, then it was not only inflammatory, but basically unfair. There may even be legal grounds for this young man to take action, has he any care to. I don't have enough time to research such things.
But as an artist, we all purported to have the ability to do or say anything we damn well please, no matter who or what it hurts. Yes? WRONG.
Art is regularly censured. That's what judges are for. You cannot just put a piece of art that is inflammatory to blacks or any other minority group in a museum into the Met or the Guggenhiem. There are even laws that censure that as well.
Writers have editors. That joke about the blue pencil is around for a reason.
Free speech is a euphamisim for what society can and will accept. That what hurts, even if it is just a small perceived hurt, should be avoided at all costs. Even if the writer did it hastily, even if it was an unconcious twinge.
This 'free speech' that you talk about; when it comes around and bites you in the ass, will you be so eager to defend it with the same zeal you see here? When you date the next creative person you happen to date decides to dump you and write a song or write a story, and use it where others can realize it's you, will you be so comfortable with what you said?
Free speech is not a shield to hide behind. You use it too widely. You are turning my profession into a something that allows ANY hack to just throw something together and say it's something creative, even if it sucks. And is that something you want? I think there should be a higher standard, contrary to what you and most of the American public I've ever met thinks. It is NOT your God - given right to say whatever the hell you want and call it 'art'. Then all art would basically be trash.
Just something you might consider as you wander about aimlessly, looking for pointless causes to defend, using poorly understood Articles of the Constitution.
Sincerely,
AA, longtime friend of Dragonlady
PS: If you wish to use that to attack me, then please know that if I didn't agree with her, then I wouldn't have bothered to spend any time trying to make a point that will probably be wasted on you.
Again Sincerely,
AA

Time Saver

Date: 2002-06-07 12:07 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Dragonlady and other readers -
To save time I will let you know I am at the Schaumburg Public Library right now...so you don't need to go figure it out. I am here instead of at my house so that this creepy IP thing can't find out where I live. Anyway - point being...I apologize on behalf of my fans and sadly on behalf of myself since my involvement with this tour has drawn me into this. In my defense I will say that a fan/semi-friend of mine is who has been posting and it will be stopping at my request. Believe me or don't - it's really all the same to me. In response to the original post, you think what you want to and I will do the same. I personally do not feel like any lines were crossed, but from the responses and comments here it seems that a lot of people do. Fair enough. I leave it at that. I am somewhat upset at the accusing me of doing it and linking my website to it -- somewhat not kosher with me, but again you do what you need to do. If you would like to discuss this further, email me at brianwspencer@hotmail.com and I can explain more.

Other than that - I apologize for any further harm done on behalf of my fans and the like.
ox
brian

Re: Time Saver

Date: 2002-06-07 06:09 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The reading public has a right to know the parties involved or relevant to the situation, Mr. Spencer, but apologies are due for my shot in the dark. Don't cry too hard over the web link; for a musician, is there any such thing as bad publicity? More hits for your site right? Wouldn't it be ironic if dragonlady ended up liking your music and bought your CD?

Darius would be rolling on the floor in laughter over this whole pissing contest. Of course, one last question remains unanswered. How did Mr. Rabid Fan stumble upon this site in the first place, if Ms. Lin and Mr. Spencer had absolutely no involvement?

-Holmes

what a mess

Date: 2002-06-07 01:17 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
to all--

well i finally got in touch with brian and told him what was happening on this board. as it turns out, he never posted anything to it. not cool. after he went and took a look at all the posts from this past week, he posted an apology on behalf of whoever it was who was originally posted. that was the extent of his actual involvement in this flame war.

i have no idea who it was that posted the original message, but brian tells me that the schaumberg library is a pretty popular hangout. it's hicksville, usa, really, and where else are you going to find the internet? seeing as he plays out regularly in the schaumberg area and has a pretty strong fanbase there, it might one of his hometown fans - perhaps one of the ones who came out and saw the both of us when we played chicago. and anonymous hometown fan, if you are reading this right now, please please spend your online time buying a cd from myself or brian instead posting here, okay?

a few days ago, i got an angry IM out of the blue from bridget accusing me of sending flamers to this web site. against my better judgement, i went to this website and read all the ugly and snide comments relating to this controversy. it was disgusting.

this is the problem with the internet - it's easy to forget the impact that words can have and the fact that actual people are behind the identities and screennames you flame. say what you will about the flier, but the ensuing discussion has eroded into a series of baseless derogatory comments about two people (yours truly and brian) that you really don't know at all. have none of you anything better to do than sit around all day and take your frustrations out on total strangers by flaming them?

i think that some of you owe an apology to me and even more so, to brian.

-a

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