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dragonlady7via https://ift.tt/2U94kQh
limerental:
This!
The Yen that chooses to fight at Sodden is already well on her way to being someone who could effectively mother/mentor a traumatized child. She’s given up on pursuing her own interests and willing to sacrifice herself.
We don’t know yet what she will be like on the show post-Sodden, but she’s not going to have the same motivations. It would make no sense for her to snap right back to being someone blindly trying to restore her womb.
witchertrashbag:
I deeply agree that the Yennefer of episode 6 should not help raise a child. She says she wants a child because she wants to be important to someone, and that’s extremely unhealthy.
I will say, as I wade into the middle of this river, that my reading of the last two episodes is that Yennefer’s conversation with Geralt is the start of a huge turning point for Yennefer. I think she has never considered the underlying emotional need she has before she says “I want to be important to someone.”
The very next episode, she rushes to the side of someone she felt important to: Istredd. She doesn’t talk about any plan for a child. Instead, she pitches him his old idea for their lives together, and is rejected. Because she’s still the same person who just said boring isn’t better.
Yennefer then goes with Vilgefortz to Aretuza, the place of her own upbringing, visits her old room, and decides to show the girls there the “truth” about the place. She’s driven by anger and pain and wants to save them from making the highly manipulated choices she made.
She does some bad parenting. And her own problematic mother-figure calls her out on it. And I think neither of them is exactly right.
In the finale, Yennefer goes with Tissaia and the group she feels used her and manipulated her to help a greater good. She talks to Tissaia about how she’s ready to die. And in this moment, I believe she really has given up hope of finding a way to have a child. She says there is nothing more for her in this world.
Tissaia tells her she has so much more to give. That there are more ways than a child to have a legacy.
And in the battle of sodden, she watches her fellow sorceresses and does her best to protect them. She watches many of them die. She channels a wildfire through herself to destroy an army. Her legacy.
I’m typing all this on my phone because I think a character who gives up her ability to have a child for power, and then (in every version of that character) regrets that, has to go through an arc— she had to want a child, then realize she actually wants a legacy, a family, to feel complete, to begin to realize what a child means— BEFORE she can come into contact with Ciri.
Those last two episodes and the massive, life-changing journey she goes on is crucial.
And also: she’s not gonna be good at it right away. Few people are. But she has that growth behind her. At least, that’s what I saw.
lemondropsssss:
i mean i guess i’m saying that any kind of mother or mentor relationship between show yenn and ciri seems like it would be wildly unhealthy? yenn should be nowhere near a deeply traumatized child? she is completely unfit to raise or mentor anyone? like her obsession with having bio children is borderline disgusting and super far past borderline abilitst? like she thinks she needs a child to feel complete and if we know anything about those kinds of relationships we know they’re deeply unhealthy for both parties involved?
i mean my dislike of yenn is based on the blatant abilism of the her character arc. i get that’s not how it is in the books or games, but not all of us have access to that information and have to base our opinions just on the information given to us by show runners. and yenn from the show should not be in any kind of relationship with a deeply traumatized thirteen year old girl
limerental:
Consider: Ciri and Yen have not even… met yet… on the show? How could you say anything about where they’re headed with their relationship?
Also I don’t care about what is healthy or unhealthy, especially in a developing relationship. There’s still time to work through that and the show is obviously setting up some character development that hopefully will play out more next season. I mean, in the show we already saw Yen go from a naive and hesitant child to a seemingly self-absorbed, unrepentant woman seeking what she wants at any cost to someone who would lay down her life for a cause she has said she doesn’t even care about. That’s show Yen’s characterization and you’re welcome to dislike it but I don’t think it’s warranted based on what actually happens in the show and what is likely to happen next season.
lemondropsssss:
everything i like about yenn comes from the books games or fic from people who’ve played the games or read the books
show yenn’s characterization just makes me feel gross inside, and i really don’t like where they’re heading with ciri and yenn’s relationship like i can’t see a way that won’t be deeply unhealthy for both of them
whereskansas:
….well THAT sure as fuck wasn’t made clear in the show.
Can I take a moment to thank everyone who has access to the books for giving the rest of us these explanations? Because this information radically changes Yenn on MULTIPLE levels
Like
Take an abused child with zero agency and zero expectations of ever having a moment of happiness and acceptance, show her how powerful she can be, how she can wrest that agency back, and offer her a “choice” between extreme power and absolute uncertainty of ever having a happy marriage and children? Knowing that if she does choose that, she very much will return to that life of zero agency where she is wholly dependent on the kindness of others to live?
That’s the opposite of a choice, that’s just survival.
limerental:
yennehfer
This is the quote from Blood of Elves from Tissaia that I am referencing (pulled from the wiki and the quote itself is longer but am at work so cannot take picture of the book)
limerental:
I see a lot of “yennefer made a choice and chose being transformed over having kids, then regretted her choice” and I think that… honestly really overestimates the amount of agency she had (or felt that she had)
At least according to the books, mages from Aretuza (where ugly/flawed girls go) must be transformed to hold court positions and all mages in general are forcibly sterilized. Taken in as young, gifted children, manipulated by their elders, taught that they have to do magic this way or risk going insane and/or being hunted down for being a rogue mage.
So… yes, she had a choice. In a sense. Making the choice that would allow her more (perceived) freedom serving a court and then realizing that that’s not how it actually worked makes it understandable to feel regret.
limerental:
This!
The Yen that chooses to fight at Sodden is already well on her way to being someone who could effectively mother/mentor a traumatized child. She’s given up on pursuing her own interests and willing to sacrifice herself.
We don’t know yet what she will be like on the show post-Sodden, but she’s not going to have the same motivations. It would make no sense for her to snap right back to being someone blindly trying to restore her womb.
witchertrashbag:
I deeply agree that the Yennefer of episode 6 should not help raise a child. She says she wants a child because she wants to be important to someone, and that’s extremely unhealthy.
I will say, as I wade into the middle of this river, that my reading of the last two episodes is that Yennefer’s conversation with Geralt is the start of a huge turning point for Yennefer. I think she has never considered the underlying emotional need she has before she says “I want to be important to someone.”
The very next episode, she rushes to the side of someone she felt important to: Istredd. She doesn’t talk about any plan for a child. Instead, she pitches him his old idea for their lives together, and is rejected. Because she’s still the same person who just said boring isn’t better.
Yennefer then goes with Vilgefortz to Aretuza, the place of her own upbringing, visits her old room, and decides to show the girls there the “truth” about the place. She’s driven by anger and pain and wants to save them from making the highly manipulated choices she made.
She does some bad parenting. And her own problematic mother-figure calls her out on it. And I think neither of them is exactly right.
In the finale, Yennefer goes with Tissaia and the group she feels used her and manipulated her to help a greater good. She talks to Tissaia about how she’s ready to die. And in this moment, I believe she really has given up hope of finding a way to have a child. She says there is nothing more for her in this world.
Tissaia tells her she has so much more to give. That there are more ways than a child to have a legacy.
And in the battle of sodden, she watches her fellow sorceresses and does her best to protect them. She watches many of them die. She channels a wildfire through herself to destroy an army. Her legacy.
I’m typing all this on my phone because I think a character who gives up her ability to have a child for power, and then (in every version of that character) regrets that, has to go through an arc— she had to want a child, then realize she actually wants a legacy, a family, to feel complete, to begin to realize what a child means— BEFORE she can come into contact with Ciri.
Those last two episodes and the massive, life-changing journey she goes on is crucial.
And also: she’s not gonna be good at it right away. Few people are. But she has that growth behind her. At least, that’s what I saw.
lemondropsssss:
i mean i guess i’m saying that any kind of mother or mentor relationship between show yenn and ciri seems like it would be wildly unhealthy? yenn should be nowhere near a deeply traumatized child? she is completely unfit to raise or mentor anyone? like her obsession with having bio children is borderline disgusting and super far past borderline abilitst? like she thinks she needs a child to feel complete and if we know anything about those kinds of relationships we know they’re deeply unhealthy for both parties involved?
i mean my dislike of yenn is based on the blatant abilism of the her character arc. i get that’s not how it is in the books or games, but not all of us have access to that information and have to base our opinions just on the information given to us by show runners. and yenn from the show should not be in any kind of relationship with a deeply traumatized thirteen year old girl
limerental:
Consider: Ciri and Yen have not even… met yet… on the show? How could you say anything about where they’re headed with their relationship?
Also I don’t care about what is healthy or unhealthy, especially in a developing relationship. There’s still time to work through that and the show is obviously setting up some character development that hopefully will play out more next season. I mean, in the show we already saw Yen go from a naive and hesitant child to a seemingly self-absorbed, unrepentant woman seeking what she wants at any cost to someone who would lay down her life for a cause she has said she doesn’t even care about. That’s show Yen’s characterization and you’re welcome to dislike it but I don’t think it’s warranted based on what actually happens in the show and what is likely to happen next season.
lemondropsssss:
everything i like about yenn comes from the books games or fic from people who’ve played the games or read the books
show yenn’s characterization just makes me feel gross inside, and i really don’t like where they’re heading with ciri and yenn’s relationship like i can’t see a way that won’t be deeply unhealthy for both of them
whereskansas:
….well THAT sure as fuck wasn’t made clear in the show.
Can I take a moment to thank everyone who has access to the books for giving the rest of us these explanations? Because this information radically changes Yenn on MULTIPLE levels
Like
Take an abused child with zero agency and zero expectations of ever having a moment of happiness and acceptance, show her how powerful she can be, how she can wrest that agency back, and offer her a “choice” between extreme power and absolute uncertainty of ever having a happy marriage and children? Knowing that if she does choose that, she very much will return to that life of zero agency where she is wholly dependent on the kindness of others to live?
That’s the opposite of a choice, that’s just survival.
limerental:
yennehferThis is the quote from Blood of Elves from Tissaia that I am referencing (pulled from the wiki and the quote itself is longer but am at work so cannot take picture of the book)
limerental:
I see a lot of “yennefer made a choice and chose being transformed over having kids, then regretted her choice” and I think that… honestly really overestimates the amount of agency she had (or felt that she had)
At least according to the books, mages from Aretuza (where ugly/flawed girls go) must be transformed to hold court positions and all mages in general are forcibly sterilized. Taken in as young, gifted children, manipulated by their elders, taught that they have to do magic this way or risk going insane and/or being hunted down for being a rogue mage.
So… yes, she had a choice. In a sense. Making the choice that would allow her more (perceived) freedom serving a court and then realizing that that’s not how it actually worked makes it understandable to feel regret.
