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redstapler linked to a really trite blog post by an apparent healthy-living mommy-blog superstar who had a kerfuffle in the comment section. Disclaimer: the only mommy-blogger I read is Dooce, because I was reading her before she was a mommy. I don't mind the mommy stuff-- I dig the mommy stuff-- but reading this blog post, today, I admit I finally get why people hate mommybloggers. Oh my god it was trite. Banal. And then there were like three screenfuls of people kissing ass. I'm so inspired/you said it, girl!/that's so great, etc.
It's here, for the record. I'd opened it in a new tab behind my current one, as is my wont while browsing-- I like to finish with one page before I go to another. So I finished a page, was closing tabs as I went, and came to this blog post with no context. Why am I reading this? I wondered. There's got to be a point somewhere.
It was some fluffy musings on going clothes shopping. We've all been there. Shit doesn't fit, you're fatter than you thought, nothing flatters, etc. I sort of started skimming after she lamented having to get the "curvy" cut of jeans-- what? I thought that was just a style, not a different cut-- well whatever-- and paused at the photos. OK, skinny white chick, making faces, with her expensive DSLR next to her. Definitely not the type of thing I normally read; it's like a toothless unfunny version of Dooce, who at least is pretty up-front about her eating-disordered past and serious mental illness etc. (When she's in brutal honesty mode, God, the soul-searing revelatory nature of it-- she hasn't lost her teeth now that she's sold out. Really. And bless her for selling out-- bless her for being able to. She's so fucking genuine. But I digress.)
Anyway. The reasonredstapler had linked to the post was that a friend of hers had left a comment pointing out that a post that purported to be about body-positivity was definitely contradicting itself somewhat by leaving unexamined the statement that the writer felt bad about having to wear the "curvy" jeans.
The OP replied that she should "deal with it" and look at the bigger message, which was ostensibly loving oneself... Well, duh-- if the commenter hadn't noticed the bigger message she wouldn't've bothered pointing out the contradiction!! The commenter said that she'd just move along and read other blogs, then, and MamaPea (are cutesy names required?) huffily bid her farewell.
So whenredstapler chimed in with a similar sentiment-- again, respectfully-- she was told to "bring her negativity elsewhere", and then hilariously asked whether she had tried yoga. Really, MamaPea? Yoga? Is that how dialogue works? People go try yoga, simmer down, and then agree with you?
So I re-skimmed the comments. (My comment that if she'd been so dismayed by having to wear "curvy fit" jeans, what would having to wear an actual plus size have done to her?-- was definitely not let thru the moderation queue, and after I posted mine-- I shouldn't have, it was dogpiling-- the whole thread got BUHLEETED. Hi, you must be new to this Internet thing.)
There were a few anecdotes by commenters of hand-wringing over young not-fat girls echoing the self-shaming fat talk they'd heard elsewhere-- what, oh what, are we teaching our youth?-- but one common thread was that all of the young girls were emphatically NOT FAT, and should have been told so. Not that they shouldn't have been told it doesn't matter, but that they should have been reassured that they weren't fat.
So fat is still undesireable, unforgivable, ugly, bad.
And it made me want to write a long thinky post. It's OK to "love your curves", provided you're not actually fat. That's the takeaway message. Apparently this Pea woman is some sort of big noise in the mommyblogging scene-- which I have trouble believing, because one thing about mommybloggers, love 'em or hate 'em, is that the second they get any real fame, they get the shit trolled out of them by all kinds of people. (Hence my remorse for dogpiling, but REALLY, have you tried YOGA? Are you fucking kidding me? They're going to eat you ALIVE, woman.)-- and so it's worth pointing it out. This is the state of body acceptance. It's OK to be differently-shaped, it's practically required that you embrace your inner beauty.
But not if you're actually fat.
My thinky post probably would mostly be about this line. Where's the line? When are you considered "fat"? There surely must be a thick black line demarcating it, given the simplicity of the logic. Nobody ever thinks of it that way, though. Almost all the people I know, outside of the Fat Acceptance (FA) movement, think this way. Love your body! Unless it's fat. I mean like really fat, like obesity fat.
And we can all agree on what that is. Except when we can't.
Argh, I don't have time to get into it in the depth it needs. (This is why I don't write on LJ much anymore.) So someone needs to write it for me. Or maybe when I get some time I can sit and rewrite this to say it. Either it's OK to love your body, whatever its "failings"-- obesity, diabetes, skinny ankles, bad skin, irritable bowel syndrome, cancer, limp hair, whatever-- or it's not. Quit fucking lying to me. Quit lying to yourself.
Whenever I mention anything about FA people are hasty to assure me that I'm not fat. They seem offended. Both sides-- people fatter than I, and people thinner than I. Well, I have a BMI of 30, which equals "obese" on the scale. Yes it is due in large part to my higher-than-normal muscle mass. But it's still a BMI of 30. You don't get a pass. BMI has no allowances for gender, for build, for muscles. When we talk about Teh Obeesities, we're talking purely and simply about BMI. So Google it, if you think that's bullshit-- it absolutely is.
I also wear a plus size. I can fit into 14s, usually, which you can sometimes find at regular stores, but sometimes they're misses 14s, or vanity 14s, so I can't. That's the biggest juniors size, usually, so I can't shop many places. I'm safer in a 16, which is a plus size. (I actually fit a jr 16 or a women's 14, but good luck with that distinction. Women's 16 is baggy; misses' 14 too tight. Then some places have Plus and Women's on different sizing systems. Dizzy yet? This is why I wear skirts and homemade legwarmers in the depths of winter.)
By two objective criteria, I'm fat. I wear a plus size and have an "obese" BMI. So quit insisting I'm not "fat". My point is not to have you reassure me. My point is that it doesn't matter. Your distinctions are meaningless. Either our bodies are shameful things that must constantly be controlled, OR they're beautiful individual things that are sacred creations of nature. Pick one. Stop fucking around.
This is horridly inarticulate, but it was either write an inarticulate totally unedited screed, or compose speeches to myself in the car about it and never write it down and forget about it in three days, so, I chose the former. Apologies for any poorly-worded or nonsensical arguments. I'm trying to write more, and this is the best I can do.
redstapler linked to a really trite blog post by an apparent healthy-living mommy-blog superstar who had a kerfuffle in the comment section. Disclaimer: the only mommy-blogger I read is Dooce, because I was reading her before she was a mommy. I don't mind the mommy stuff-- I dig the mommy stuff-- but reading this blog post, today, I admit I finally get why people hate mommybloggers. Oh my god it was trite. Banal. And then there were like three screenfuls of people kissing ass. I'm so inspired/you said it, girl!/that's so great, etc. It's here, for the record. I'd opened it in a new tab behind my current one, as is my wont while browsing-- I like to finish with one page before I go to another. So I finished a page, was closing tabs as I went, and came to this blog post with no context. Why am I reading this? I wondered. There's got to be a point somewhere.
It was some fluffy musings on going clothes shopping. We've all been there. Shit doesn't fit, you're fatter than you thought, nothing flatters, etc. I sort of started skimming after she lamented having to get the "curvy" cut of jeans-- what? I thought that was just a style, not a different cut-- well whatever-- and paused at the photos. OK, skinny white chick, making faces, with her expensive DSLR next to her. Definitely not the type of thing I normally read; it's like a toothless unfunny version of Dooce, who at least is pretty up-front about her eating-disordered past and serious mental illness etc. (When she's in brutal honesty mode, God, the soul-searing revelatory nature of it-- she hasn't lost her teeth now that she's sold out. Really. And bless her for selling out-- bless her for being able to. She's so fucking genuine. But I digress.)
Anyway. The reason
redstapler had linked to the post was that a friend of hers had left a comment pointing out that a post that purported to be about body-positivity was definitely contradicting itself somewhat by leaving unexamined the statement that the writer felt bad about having to wear the "curvy" jeans. The OP replied that she should "deal with it" and look at the bigger message, which was ostensibly loving oneself... Well, duh-- if the commenter hadn't noticed the bigger message she wouldn't've bothered pointing out the contradiction!! The commenter said that she'd just move along and read other blogs, then, and MamaPea (are cutesy names required?) huffily bid her farewell.
So when
redstapler chimed in with a similar sentiment-- again, respectfully-- she was told to "bring her negativity elsewhere", and then hilariously asked whether she had tried yoga. Really, MamaPea? Yoga? Is that how dialogue works? People go try yoga, simmer down, and then agree with you? So I re-skimmed the comments. (My comment that if she'd been so dismayed by having to wear "curvy fit" jeans, what would having to wear an actual plus size have done to her?-- was definitely not let thru the moderation queue, and after I posted mine-- I shouldn't have, it was dogpiling-- the whole thread got BUHLEETED. Hi, you must be new to this Internet thing.)
There were a few anecdotes by commenters of hand-wringing over young not-fat girls echoing the self-shaming fat talk they'd heard elsewhere-- what, oh what, are we teaching our youth?-- but one common thread was that all of the young girls were emphatically NOT FAT, and should have been told so. Not that they shouldn't have been told it doesn't matter, but that they should have been reassured that they weren't fat.
So fat is still undesireable, unforgivable, ugly, bad.
And it made me want to write a long thinky post. It's OK to "love your curves", provided you're not actually fat. That's the takeaway message. Apparently this Pea woman is some sort of big noise in the mommyblogging scene-- which I have trouble believing, because one thing about mommybloggers, love 'em or hate 'em, is that the second they get any real fame, they get the shit trolled out of them by all kinds of people. (Hence my remorse for dogpiling, but REALLY, have you tried YOGA? Are you fucking kidding me? They're going to eat you ALIVE, woman.)-- and so it's worth pointing it out. This is the state of body acceptance. It's OK to be differently-shaped, it's practically required that you embrace your inner beauty.
But not if you're actually fat.
My thinky post probably would mostly be about this line. Where's the line? When are you considered "fat"? There surely must be a thick black line demarcating it, given the simplicity of the logic. Nobody ever thinks of it that way, though. Almost all the people I know, outside of the Fat Acceptance (FA) movement, think this way. Love your body! Unless it's fat. I mean like really fat, like obesity fat.
And we can all agree on what that is. Except when we can't.
Argh, I don't have time to get into it in the depth it needs. (This is why I don't write on LJ much anymore.) So someone needs to write it for me. Or maybe when I get some time I can sit and rewrite this to say it. Either it's OK to love your body, whatever its "failings"-- obesity, diabetes, skinny ankles, bad skin, irritable bowel syndrome, cancer, limp hair, whatever-- or it's not. Quit fucking lying to me. Quit lying to yourself.
Whenever I mention anything about FA people are hasty to assure me that I'm not fat. They seem offended. Both sides-- people fatter than I, and people thinner than I. Well, I have a BMI of 30, which equals "obese" on the scale. Yes it is due in large part to my higher-than-normal muscle mass. But it's still a BMI of 30. You don't get a pass. BMI has no allowances for gender, for build, for muscles. When we talk about Teh Obeesities, we're talking purely and simply about BMI. So Google it, if you think that's bullshit-- it absolutely is.
I also wear a plus size. I can fit into 14s, usually, which you can sometimes find at regular stores, but sometimes they're misses 14s, or vanity 14s, so I can't. That's the biggest juniors size, usually, so I can't shop many places. I'm safer in a 16, which is a plus size. (I actually fit a jr 16 or a women's 14, but good luck with that distinction. Women's 16 is baggy; misses' 14 too tight. Then some places have Plus and Women's on different sizing systems. Dizzy yet? This is why I wear skirts and homemade legwarmers in the depths of winter.)
By two objective criteria, I'm fat. I wear a plus size and have an "obese" BMI. So quit insisting I'm not "fat". My point is not to have you reassure me. My point is that it doesn't matter. Your distinctions are meaningless. Either our bodies are shameful things that must constantly be controlled, OR they're beautiful individual things that are sacred creations of nature. Pick one. Stop fucking around.
This is horridly inarticulate, but it was either write an inarticulate totally unedited screed, or compose speeches to myself in the car about it and never write it down and forget about it in three days, so, I chose the former. Apologies for any poorly-worded or nonsensical arguments. I'm trying to write more, and this is the best I can do.
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no subject
Date: 2011-01-18 10:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-18 10:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 12:08 am (UTC)Thank you for this. I too am in that grey area of non existant clothing. I too am considered fat according to BMI...but then, so is my husband, who is very much "not fat". I am a little out of shape, and have a bit of a jelly belly, but I wouldn't consider myself fat, if it weren't for BMI telling me that I am obese.
I hope that mommyblogger is eaten alive. She deserves it for perpetuating the stereotype. I hope to Godess she didn't have little girls!
no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 12:32 am (UTC)I guess her normal focus is on healthy eating? I don't know, I wasn't at all interested in clicking further to find out what else she was about.
Apparently the average USian woman is a size 14. Well then, why is it so bloody impossible to find clothes if you're around that size???? It stands to reason that if that's the average size it would be a Medium, not an XL or XXL-- or, if you're shopping in a plus-size store, an S or XS!
Can you imagine if stores catered to the statistical average woman? Most things available in a size 14 or so, with it tapering off in a normal distribution of larger and smaller depending on frequency of demand? It's laughable, isn't it? While I'm at it, I'll imagine bras that come in more than the Victoria's Secret 9-12 "normal" sizes.
I have to admit, it's looking at vintage porn that finally hammered the nail into the coffin of my unexamined belief in the myth that we have an obesity epidemic. People have always come in different shapes and sizes, they just generally tend to be taller and bigger-framed now. Women have always had jelly bellies or jiggly thighs or wobbly boobs, it was just normal; they just tended to be much smaller than now, as did men. It's only after 1960 or so that we started demanding that our porn stars be gazelle-shaped, along with our Hollywood movie stars, and started believing that our jelly bellies and jiggly thighs weren't normal anymore.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 01:00 am (UTC)I haven't bought a bra at Victoria's Secret ever...I outgrew their sizes when I was about 12. I am a 38F, I have only found that size in the UK.
I have my grandmother's body, I accepted that fact years ago. When she was dying and only weighed 100lbs, she still had a belly. We are short waisted, there's nowhere else for those internal bits to go. If I sat on a rower every day, it'd be tight, but still protruding!
no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 12:53 am (UTC)Anyway, I've actually been thinking about body-love recently, because it's something that really bugs me about making any kind of fitness change. Everyone thinks that you're doing things to be thin, and I find that really makes me full of rage. Yes, sometimes exercise can make you smaller and denser, but it's not about the thin! It's about all the other benefits that come from being in good shape. Like your heart health, for example. Or maybe you think sports are fun. It's really annoying when people's reaction to any and everything you do is 'OH GOODY, NOW YOU CAN LOSE MORE WEIGHT'.
I actually think it makes it exercise and fitness less appealing for some people, because while people are trying to be encouraging, they are actually just equating healthy things with negativity and self-hate.
Er, but, to bring this rambling point round again, I don't think you can really exercise or eat in a healthy way unless you FIRST love yourself, no matter how fat you are. Otherwise, any 'health gains' you try to make will always be coming from a self-loathing place. Healthy habits should be about loving yourself and enjoying living a good life, not kissing everyone else's ass cause you're so sorry you're offending thier eyes with your horrible fatness.
/size 14, tall
no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 04:23 pm (UTC)Amen!
I resisted doing sports for a long time because I didn't want to cave to the attitude that fitness was paramount. I was very athletic as a kid-- horseback riding, hiking, skiing-- all kinds of things for FUN. Once I was not a kid anymore, athletic activity still happened, but the organized stuff was all FOR FITNESS and DON'T YOU WANT TO BE THIN LIKE YOUR SISTER and so on, and I hid away from all of it.
I only do roller derby because it's fun, and because my team relies on me. If I ever retire I know I won't start working out just for the hell of it. I will miss the endorphins but those aren't enough to get me out there dealing with the people who assume I'm doing it to (well, in this case unsuccessfully) be thin. Ick ugh blech.
The other night at practice as part of a drill we were doing crunches and someone yelled out "Bikini summer, ladies!" and I said "Screw that, I'm already bikini-ready if only it weren't six below zero!"
no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 01:14 am (UTC)Your rant makes total sense. I especially hate it when people say stuff like that only to fish for a compliment (my MIL for instance who is a size 0 and complains she's fat.) Grrr.
I love your post and wish more people thought like you, just accepting ourselves would be wonderful!
no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 08:07 am (UTC)/Eva
no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 04:27 pm (UTC)I can never find anything that's just right. But that's not really a surprise. Most people can't. It's just harder when you're in that inbetween size. Just like the average American woman...
I read a lot on the LJ community
no subject
Date: 2011-01-19 08:05 am (UTC)/Eva
Fascinating.
Date: 2011-01-19 08:48 pm (UTC)Here's the thing: I was a size 16 a year ago. Now I'm a size 8, thanks to Michael Pollen's Food Rules and exercise on the average five days a week. And yet, despite this, I still feel fat. When I look in the mirror, I see fat. My BMI, thanks to my body type and size is 32% as opposed to the 38% when I started. I told my doctor, who sees me sitting in front of her, who sees my chart and knows how much I've worked and lost that my BMI was 32% and her response was, "Eww. That's high." Then I pointed out it was 38% and she back pedaled.
So--technically, I'm overweight. But I have gone from the 16 to an 8 and my whole thing on this is: fat is in the head. And it's driven by society and supported by numbers and medical professionals that are tied to numbers. I finally threw my scale away when I realized from building the muscle mass, I'm smaller than I was when I weighed 15 pounds less.
But the thing is, even after all the work of the last year, when I feel like I can't sustain or have the "when will it end and I start to gain it back" moments, I remember the reason I really started which was to avoid Type II Diabetes. So the answer is: I don't stop. Not ever. Not if that's the goal. Somehow that makes me feel better--or at least that I'll keep going.
But I guess the question I ask, and it ties back into the skinny MamaPea (that did sort of make me throw up in my mouth a little) not wanting to wear the curvy jeans and the size 0's who feel fat: how, HOW do we reach a point in society where we realize that this pervasive "judge yourself as less and not more" mentality our media and culture is imparting to young women, where we tie our BMI numbers and jean sizes to our self-judgement changes to the following question: are you healthy?
Because that's what we should be asking ourselves. Are you a candidate for Type II diabetes? For heart disease? Do you have joint or muscle problems that could be addressed by losing extra weight? Are you eating foods that will nourish your body instead of comfort your soul (and it's possible to do both but not at McDonalds, you know?)
I guess the point of this crazy ramble is we are taught to be critical of our appearance-- to dislike the way we look no matter who we are. And on top of it, we apologize for our looks if we're not thin enough for our own liking. (Yes, I can speak to that one in spades. I still even apologize for eating. It's ridiculous.) Even with the most supportive parents, in the best environment, society/fashion still dictates that size is all that matters. And it doesn't stop as the waistband gets smaller--in fact, I've found the cleaner you live, the more dirt you see on your carpets.
I'm not making sense. I had a point but I've gone on a rant. The idea is health is beauty, you know? I'll stop now before I really stick my foot in it.
Re: Fascinating.
Date: 2011-01-20 04:10 am (UTC)The rabbit hole gets even deeper when you start reading about "the Obesity paradox." What's that, you may ask. It's not something the news ever covers. it's not something doctors tend to mention. Here's a good overview. (http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2006/11/obesity-paradox-1.html) Obese patients generally live longer than normal or underweight ones. What? Yeah.
It all comes down to something I've ranted about a couple of times lately: there's this pervasive American attitude that if you fulfill all the right magical quest items, jump through all the right hoops, then you will be granted the Universally Good Rewards:
You will be skinny, you will be healthy, and you will be rich.
If you fail at any of these three things, then you either missed one of the Secret Hidden Magical Quest Items, or you didn't jump HIGH enough through those hoops, or you simply aren't pure enough at heart to merit them.
In any case, it's your fault.
This toxic attitude means then that logically, if a person is a failure at any of society's three most important tasks-- being skinny, being healthy, being rich-- then it is HER FAULT. She has done something WRONG. Living like that-- living without being skinny/healthy/rich-- is an affront to those who DO try hard enough.
(Kate Harding touches on this pretty extensively in her excellent essay The Fantasy of Being Thin (http://kateharding.net/2007/11/27/the-fantasy-of-being-thin/).)
That's not to say that all doctors are wrong, of course, and that there's nothing anyone can do about his or her health, of course-- and not to say that nobody should ever work their ass off to improve their career-- but the idea that health, thinness, and wealth are all things that a person can TOTALLY control if ONLY she tries HARD enough-- well, it's pretty fucking stupid, really.
(And yes, I put all three in there because people really do think that way.)