hm

[dragonlady7]

Reading a column, via bookslut, on a book about fashion that dispenses "sensible" advice, and is apparently less antifeminist than the norm. Great. I was cautiously behind her on the whole thing, but then stumbled across a paragraph that made me recoil with a nearly-out-loud (that would've been bad, as I'm at work) "Fuck you!"

Show me a woman with a good three inches of cleavage on show and I'll show you a woman who has little faith in her powers of conversation. All fashion is, to a degree, a form of self-expression in that it gives onlookers an impression of your personality before you open your mouth. Some style choices, however, come with such an immutable set of associations, there is no need for words. [...]
Cleavage takes this to a whole new level. Any conversation will be pointless anyway as no one will be listening, either because they're (a) straight males and therefore rendered temporarily hypnotised, a cliché, yes, but sad and true, or (b) anyone else and are thus left shocked by the pathetic obviousness of your tactics.

Yes, you have breasts - congratulations. Whether squashing them together like two pigs fighting underneath a blanket shows them off to their best advantage is a somewhat debatable point. Whether it adds anything to your outfit is less so because the answer is, no, it doesn't.

Yeah, fuck you. Another possible? Maybe we're sick of getting teased about being fat so we're just heading off the inevitable sly digs by just putting them the fuck out there. Look, I have fucking huge tits and I know that, so here they are: when you make the joke about them or reference to them that I know you are going to, at least you won't be able to feel smug like I'm not in on this joke. I am the fucking joke, of course I'm in on it whether you meant to include me or not.
Also turtlenecks make me look like I have some sort of bloating-related disease.
Also a nicely low-cut shirt disguises the fact that none of your fucking bras fit.

Also?
You're just jealous, you skinny bitch.
(I have to say these things sometimes, and I apologize to any of you who might happen to be thin. It's not directed at you unless you started this.)

And I came to the inevitable conclusion that fashion is a highly individual thing, there are no categorical dos and don'ts, and anyone who says so, no matter how funkily and pro-feministy and cattily they say it, is just making herself feel better by keeping her sisters down, man.

(The articles are here and here.)

The last time I Went Out On The Town was for a roller-derby-related function. I wore a v-neck halter top with two slightly-too-small bras because none of mine fit my fat tits anymore. I had probably three or four inches of cleavage showing. (I can get down to about six or seven inches before there's any risk of nipple slippage, so that's actually pretty conservative for me.) My teammates, once they realized this was deliberate, happily made boob jokes, grabbed them, poked me, etc. One of my teammates played my boobs like bongos.
It was kind of freeing.
I know I got off easy; at the end of the night, some sweater-wearing preppie asshole asked one of my teammates (this one, incidentally, which I point out just in case you thought maybe he was right) if she had "anything going for her besides a big ass."
We all volunteered to beat the shit out of him. She opted to give him a sarcastic lecture before leaving.
I still think we should've beat the the shit out of him.
(My answer, which I have rehearsed should anyone ask me a similar question, is "A mean left hook", and yes I've rehearsed the demonstration part too, and yes I do get my hip into it. Possibly with a follow-up elbow to the back of the head, if he collapses properly. Is assault ever justified? I believe so, in response to a verbal assault like that: a man would only start off a conversation like that if he's hoping your self-esteem collapses so far that you'll lower yourself to fuck him. And that's assault. Fuck you, buddy, I don't need that.)

Do I have a point? I don't know if I have a point. I started off with a point. Besides the fact that I'm fashion-hopeless and take exception to the entire culture's obsession with it.
My point is, I agree that you don't have to be ignorant of fashion to be a feminist. You don't have to shave your head or wear baggy clothing. You can wear lip gloss if you like. Go for it, if it floats your boat.
But I don't agree that you should mock anybody else for their sense of fashion. You know? Fuck off. Just because you don't have big tits doesn't give you a license to make fun of everyone who does. (And FUCK "dressing to conceal your flaws". FUCK it RIGHT in its metaphorical ass! My fat tits are not a flaw, they are 40% of my torso. I refuse to consign 40% of my torso to the "flaw" bin. And I refuse to make up something else to be self-conscious about. I'm not about to expose my midriff, but I'm not going to label it as a flaw either-- that's another 20% of my fucking torso and you know, a torso is pretty important to my life. It does its job. It's not a flaw.) Just because you don't like animal print doesn't mean nobody can wear it. Maybe someone wears something unflattering and it's funny: sure. But all that really means is that the person is wearing something unflattering and possibly comical; it doesn't mean that he or she (more commonly she) is less of a person. It absolutely doesn't give you the right to judge her psyche and character. Fuck you. With any luck, she'll take your verbal assault as you intend it, and will punch you right in your smug superior face. Don't you tear me down with your fucking snark, sister, or I'll tear you down literally.

Yeah I'm a fucking pacifist. Nyahh. Am I a little wound up? Perhaps.
But it's a less-boring way than normal to start out a Thursday.

Comments

[redstapler.livejournal.com]

::applause::

Power Girl's got some big ol' knockers too.

And no one's about to start fucking with her.

[dragonlady7.livejournal.com]

I just don't see how genetics makes you fuck-with-able.
People who call themselves feminists objectify and vilify parts of the bodies of other women.
The only body type that's apparently not a joke in and of itself is skinny, but even if you're "too" skinny (which is so subjective nobody's immune to it if they're immune to fat jokes) you're the butt of resentment-based jokes.
Back the fuck off, is all I'm saying. You leave my fat titties out of your weird psychoanalytic shit.

I've got a friend who is right this very moment in a mental hospital telling the doctors she wants to cut the "extra fat" off her skeletal body with a knife. That's what all this fucking snarky judgmental shit gets you. Fuck that shit. Fuck that shit. This time last year she was a C-cup and a size 12. Fuck that shit so hard.

Eating Disorder Awareness Week is next week. I'm working up to something but I don't know what yet.

[(Anonymous)]

A woman who harbors such negative feelings about boobs cannot seriously be considered feminist; if the same quote came from a man he would be an out-and-out misogynist. The suggestion that no straight men can have a serious conversation with anything that has boobs is not just absurd but antimasculist as well. And the assertion that everyone else is as judgmental as the author is just plain misanthropic.

Everyone likes boobs. Men like boobs. Women like boobs! What's not to like about boobs?

- Z

[dragonlady7.livejournal.com]

I keep trying to make that point too. And then people are all funny because they think I'm judging them for not having boobs. You don't have to have boobs! Not everyone needs them. If everyone had them it would be boring. You don't have to be conflicted in your love of other people's boobs just because you don't have boobs. In fact if you had boobs too we probably wouldn't both fit into this room, so it's just as well.

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

I'm now an E cup and still on the increase, so I read your boob related posts with interest. This one made me very happy :) Go you!

[dragonlady7.livejournal.com]

They are what they are and I'm tired of being ashamed and apologetic. Other women (and, inexplicably, men) have been downright cruel to me for this supposed "advantage" I possess, so I figure I should at least attempt to enjoy the supposed advantage if I'm going to have to carry the burden of being ashamed of it as well.

I am planning on visiting the UK in April and want to go to a Bravissimo store while I'm there, but am somewhat worried that my boobtopian ideals will be shattered by how apparently not-that-great the stores really are in real life. The very idea of them is foreign to the US, where it is deemed impossible for a woman with large breasts to be in any way slender unless said breasts are fake and thus not in need of support. In America's stores, if you have fat titties you are fat and banished to the fat ghetto where clothing is designed solely to minimize your fat offensiveness to others.
Bleh.

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

Certainly in the UK I don't think there's as much of an attitude that large boobs are wrong in any way. Though that has its disadvantages too - our men are rather mammary obsessed and you may find them trailing you around like puppies :)

Bra shopping is not as good as you might be hoping, though. Most of the main shops which you would see on the High street stop at a DD, or an E at the most. I reckon the larger sizes are mail order here too - I didn't know about them until you dug them up.

[frualeydis.livejournal.com]

Very well written.

[rensreality101.livejournal.com]

"Show me a woman with a good three inches of cleavage on show and I'll show you a woman who has little faith in her powers of conversation"

Er...we are women. We are supposed to have a little cleavage. And while I would cover mine at a funeral, there are social situations where it is perfectly acceptable to...er...show the boobs off a little. (grin)

As for the fashion thing, (hugs you) you worry too much. If you like it and it is comfortable, screw the fashion-rules lawyers.

No one has exactly the same body shape so it has always seemed odd to me that a particular style was supposed to fit everyone. Or that we are supposed to follow the dictates of what one person (often a guy at that) decides is 'fashionable'.

The 'cover your flaws' thing set my back up as well. I hate 'flaw' as a description (says she of the slightly uneven nose) of any body part and I also think underweight and overweight should only apply when you are so much of one or the other that you are unhealthy because of your weight.

I don't consider a healthy person in between those extremes to really have 'flaws'. Hey, if we all looked the same it would be kinda creepy.

Er...what I meant to say was your boobs may be big, but they are normal. (I have seen some of your cute skating pictures) It would be nice if the fashion actually woke up and realized that.

[dragonlady7.livejournal.com]

I am regularly told "You should have a reduction."
Which boggles my mind. I have no back pain except in skating due to the posture, and that improves when I work out more. I have less trouble with it than less busty girls who don't already have pretty good muscles just from existing. And they fit pretty well with my torso, or so I think unless I have to carry a big CRT monitor around and realize my arms are too short...

I think there's nothing abnormal about my boobs, and up until I finally had to start buying GGs I insisted they really weren't that big. But thank you for saying so. They are what they are, and it's not like I can do anything about it unless I go in for painful and unnecessary surgery. I certainly can't be blamed for doing anything to make them the way they are now.

The idea of "flaws" raises my hackles quite a bit. Especially when those "flaws" are exactly what would make me my living in porn. Oy.

I was really amused by the BMI Project-- did I link to that? It's on www.kateharding.net and they just had a bunch of reader-submitted photos which they then labeled according to BMI. "Overweight", "Normal", "obese", "morbidly obese"-- It's really kind of amusing to see how many very differently-shaped people fall into the various categories. I think it would also be interesting to, say, see everyone who weighed 145 pounds, regardless of their BMI, and see how many different body types that encompasses.

Because another thing that raises my hackles is when people say "real women have curves" and expect me to be enthused. I know women who happen not to be terribly curvy, and I don't doubt their existence. People can be any shape that's healthy. If someone's starving to death, or can't move because they're too heavy to stand, then maybe they need intervention, but otherwise? Really, I don't think quite so much judging needs to happen.

"My fat tits are not a flaw, they are 40% of my torso"

[heebiejeebie.livejournal.com]

You are the chick on my F list with the biggest tits.
And the most well spoken (written?).

SO there.