physics question

[dragonlady7]

I have many things to update about regarding this weekend etc., and links to post and whatnot, but, I have first just a brief question, which I am asking in genuine exasperation after having been hung up on at work during a customer service call.

So you have an air filter. The machine, of course, is sealed, as it would be rather pointless if it were not. So it pulls air in through intakes, passes the air through a filter with no possibility of the air going around the filter, and blows the filtered air out through the outlet. Pretty basic principle.

So maybe your air filter has a 360-degree intake. The entire sides of the machine are perforated metal. This means that the air is being pulled in, fairly diffusely, through hundreds of tiny holes all the way around, rather than an intake vent. But air is blown out in a concentrated breeze through one output vent at the top.


Is it possible for air to come out that outlet without having come in through the inlets?


Does it require an advanced knowledge of physics, to figure out that question? I am genuinely asking. I never took even intro physics in high school because my math was bad and they wouldn't let me in the class, but my father was fond of giving impromptu physics lectures when I was a child so it's possible I accidentally know more about physics than the average person.


If any of you consider yourselves average in terms of your knowledge of physics, science, or, sheesh, common sense, please do give me your answer to this question.

Can air come out of a space without any air going into the space?

Can it sustain this behavior over a long period of time?
Do you see any difficulties in this?


Please share, I really want to know.
And if you can think of a way to explain it that won't sound condescending, I'd really want to know, so maybe the next one won't hang up on me.

Comments

[rootsnradicals.livejournal.com]

Unless the machine is a vacuum (not vacuum cleaner!), there is air in it all the time. If it's sealed, it can release the air inside when "squeezed", but this won't last long. This is kind of why most vacuum cleaners eventually start sucking by stopping sucking (haha! I crack myself up!). Seriously, once the air intake is clogged and no more air is getting in, then no more is being pushed out, so it stops working.

Does that help? I can have a physics teacher get in touch with you - they'd probably do better than me!

[dragonlady7.livejournal.com]

Well, I understand fine, I just am trying to understand why other people seem not to understand.

I get a whole crapload of customers calling in, you see, and saying, "My machine blows air out but none is coming in so I know it's not filtering the air!"
And I say, "If air is coming out, it has to have gotten in somehow."
And they say, "But it's not."
And I say, "The air intake is so large that there would not be very much pressure at any one point on the intake; you may not be able to feel the air going in, but it's going in. Otherwise air wouldn't be coming out. If air doesn't come out, the machine's broken and I will connect you to Repairs to get it fixed."
"But no air is going in," they persist stubbornly.

I just don't know how to explain to these people that just because they can't feel it (and on low, on our smaller machine, a tissue won't even stick to the intake unless you block off three of the four sides first; that's how diffuse it is) doesn't mean air isn't going in.
If it's coming out, it's going in.

I didn't think it was advanced physics. But I don't know how else to explain it. Maybe it is advanced...

[rootsnradicals.livejournal.com]

It's not physics you need. It's robotics/electronics. Basically something that will reach through the phone and slap them. Clearly they're just idiots. You're totally correct, and your explanation is very clear. Ugh.

[dragonlady7.livejournal.com]

I have yet to have one of them say that they know air must be coming in but are skeptical that it's going in through the air intakes. Then I could explain that it does sometimes happen that the seal fails and so air can get in and bypass the filter. And then I could tell them about the telltale whistling noise. Then I could connect them to Repairs/Returns.

But it never gets that far. They just don't get past the simple belief that air should whoosh into the machine as fast as it leaves (even though it leaves through one smallish hole and enters through many many many many small holes), and so if it doesn't, no air must be going in at all.

You're right, I do need some robotics. :D

(That said, I was just reading a catalogue that listed "organic silver bangles" as a product and I am really seriously considering calling up the customer service line and demanding to know if the silver is *certified* organic. Because how the *$)(% can metal jewelry be organic? I'm going to play it totally straight and act like a total hippie/yuppie lunatic and demand to see the USDA certificate.)

[dragonlady7.livejournal.com]

> pieces of looseleaf paper

That's exactly what I told her. I said, "Block up three of the four sides. Then try the tissue test on the remaining side."
She seemed suspicious, like this would be hiding something, but I dunno.

I'll totally steal that formula then, and use it.

> "in hole"

*gigglefit* I missed you, dude.