![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Concern Trolling 101
Jun. 30th, 2009 02:09 pmOr: On Unhelpful Advice.
This is a phenomenon that I know many of you must have encountered before. It seems to mostly happen on the Internet, but I've encountered it in real life as well.
(Edited to add: OK, the original post that made me start thinking of this years ago is gone, but there's a Making Light thread on it: The Drive-By Mommy Phenomenon. Something I'm not addressing in my post, below, is that this is, not exclusively, but heavily a female phenomenon, and the whole thing is a subtle, or not-so-subtle, ingrained way that women "police" one another: via unsolicited advice containing judgments on perceived failings.)
Someone makes a complaint, or a statement, or a comment, or perhaps asks advice (though often not), or just exists, and Is Different in some way. Has a medical issue, or a relationship issue, or something. It doesn't really matter what.
A respondent replies with a "Have you tried / Why don't you / Have you heard of / Maybe this can help" of some kind. And the thing that they're suggesting is pretty much the most basic remedy for whatever the issue is. As in, it's the first thing that any sane and reasonable human, confronted with this situation, would look into. OR, the thing they're suggesting is something that, if you've ever given the situation any thought or looked into it for about three seconds, you would realize was totally unfeasible.
i.e.: 1) "My boyfriend's beating me." "Have you tried leaving him?"
2) "My migraines are terrible." "Have you tried Excedrin?"
3) "My hair is difficult to handle." "Have you switched conditioners?"
Often this advice is given either in complete and total ignorance, or is based on very personal experience.
1) "I had a boyfriend who was mean to me once, and it was tough, but I just walked out that door."
2) "I had a bad headache and I took Excedrin and that cured it!"
3) "I had tons of trouble with my hair but then I tried X brand and it's perfect!"
Added bonus is when the advice-giver heaps on a good helping of anecdata. Super extra bonus is when the advice carries a nice hefty dose of judgment. And of course, triple word score if the anecdata is thirdhand, or based off almost no experience at all.
1) "I know tons of people with mean boyfriends and some of them just keep going back, but you've got to be strong." [Implying that the asker is weak.]
2) "My mom and my aunts all have terrible headaches a lot, and Excedrin works for them too. My mom read a study that most migraines are psychosomatic anyway so anything stronger is a waste." [Implying that if Excedrin doesn't stop the asker's migraines, she's only imagining the pain anyway. (Side issue not addressed: psychosomata. I know. Another post, another time. I'm discussing the inherent attitude in the statement.)]
3) "Well, I've only been using X brand for like a week, but I just know it's perfect. I can't wait for you to try it." [Implying that the adviser's experience is universal in all cases, and assuming that everyone wants to emulate him/her.]
I am assuming everyone reading this is aware of what's wrong with the example advice on a basic level, but I'll enumerate.
1) Many times, attempts to leave abusers are a) not supported by the abused person's family, b) not feasible for economic reasons, and c) result in fatalities when the abuser, thwarted, seeks terminal vengeance. It's not a question of being strong, it's a question of being rich, lucky, and thorough.
2) Migraines are not the same as headaches. Also, the asker's brain is likely to vary from the adviser's mother's brain significantly. Also, if it was something that over-the-counter pain medication marketed toward headache sufferers could alleviate, it is unlikely that the asker would still be complaining about it.
3) People have wildly varying hair types. What is perfect for one person may be an unmitigated disaster for another. Super double bonus if the asker is of a different race than the adviser.
But concern trolling doesn't stop there. Because all of us have made blunders like this, many good-naturedly. It is a part of being a human that you have a human brain which is not always capable of seeing all facets of every issue. Your well-meaning mouth (or fingers) may blurt out something completely, insultingly banal out of a simple impulse to respond with sympathy, without considering that you're insulting the asker's intelligence.
Concern trolling really gets into full swing when the asker replies. It can go several ways.
1) The asker is nice. "You know what, I tried that, and it didn't work / couldn't happen because X. But thanks for the advice!" The asker is assuming that you meant well, or is used to this kind of shit, sick of it, and wants you to shut up. Impossible to know which.
2) The asker is a bit chilly. "Thanks, but no!" Probably the second eventuality mentioned above.
3) The asker is completely insulted. "Good lord, do you think I'm an idiot?" From the asker's point of view, your suggestion is completely inappropriate and, worse, presupposes that the asker is not a person of reasonable intelligence.
There are non-concern-trolly ways of responding to each of these things, which a normal person, when confronted with the situation and having a modicum of common sense, would take.
1) "Oh gosh, of course you did. I'm so sorry it didn't work. I thought it couldn't hurt to ask if you'd tried it."
2) "Hm, I see. Well, good luck anyway!"
3) "Oh dear, I suppose I hadn't really thought that through. Well, I don't really know what to do, but I'm sorry for your trouble."
But here's where the concern troll shines.
1) "Are you sure you gave it a fair chance? Because it worked so well for me / the person I saw on the news. You should try again. It really is great." No troll is satisfied with a polite ending. If you can't get someone to snap or flounce, your time has been wasted. Finally the asker may be prodded into at least chilliness, whereupon the troll can whine that h/she "was just trying to help" and can go complain about how rude people are, etc.
2) "Well! Something crawled up your ass and died! I was just trying to help!" Victory!
3) Ditto, perhaps with more flaming. Victory! With any luck you can drag more people into the argument and make it into a proper flamewar. Ha ha!
The thing that differentiates concern trolls from just regular trolls is that they believe that they're genuinely trying to be helpful. They really can't understand why someone wouldn't be overjoyed at their advice, and upon hearing it, wouldn't run out to try it, and cry out, Thank God, CT, Thank GOD you were here to tell me about TV Medicine 101 or Lifetime Channel Relationship Principles! Because I never would have come up with it on my own!
Don't do this. Don't be a troll. I know some people who have a tendency to do this perfectly innocently. Normally they stop short of out-and-out trolldom, but it's still ugly.
So I have this to say. When you are going to offer someone advice, stop. Stop for a moment. Stop and think.
1) Did they ask for advice? If yes, proceed carefully. If no, hesitate further.
2) Is my advice going to be different? I.e., will they have seen the same ad as me? If this is a problem they have had for some time, is it likely that what I am suggesting is something that they will have encountered before, or will someone who has given this thirty seconds' consideration have already thought of this solution? If you think that a reasonable person is going to have already thought of something, hesitate before presenting it.
3) Do I know anything about the problem? Is this a problem I've had? If yes, THINK AGAIN: Is my problem really similar? Even if it seems similar, remember as you present your advice that it's possible that your situation isn't as similar as you think.
4) Does my advice contain some inherent judgment in it? Do I think this person is an idiot for being in this situation, and is that showing through? Do I think it's his/her own fault that he/she's suffering? Maybe, in this case, the best thing is to either keep your mouth shut, or simply offer non-specific condolences. There are a lot of things you may or may not know about the situation; if you are pretty sure that the problem is entirely that the asker is a complete idiot, then you're unlikely to improve the situation by pointing that out.
This post is brought to you by Little Miss Butthurt over on![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
fatshionista, who is still upset that I wasn't overjoyed at her suggestion that no plus-size woman could possibly wear a 32 bra band and I must be totally wrong. Honey, you got upset when I asked if you were concern trolling, but you've pretty much proved me right.
This is a phenomenon that I know many of you must have encountered before. It seems to mostly happen on the Internet, but I've encountered it in real life as well.
(Edited to add: OK, the original post that made me start thinking of this years ago is gone, but there's a Making Light thread on it: The Drive-By Mommy Phenomenon. Something I'm not addressing in my post, below, is that this is, not exclusively, but heavily a female phenomenon, and the whole thing is a subtle, or not-so-subtle, ingrained way that women "police" one another: via unsolicited advice containing judgments on perceived failings.)
Someone makes a complaint, or a statement, or a comment, or perhaps asks advice (though often not), or just exists, and Is Different in some way. Has a medical issue, or a relationship issue, or something. It doesn't really matter what.
A respondent replies with a "Have you tried / Why don't you / Have you heard of / Maybe this can help" of some kind. And the thing that they're suggesting is pretty much the most basic remedy for whatever the issue is. As in, it's the first thing that any sane and reasonable human, confronted with this situation, would look into. OR, the thing they're suggesting is something that, if you've ever given the situation any thought or looked into it for about three seconds, you would realize was totally unfeasible.
i.e.: 1) "My boyfriend's beating me." "Have you tried leaving him?"
2) "My migraines are terrible." "Have you tried Excedrin?"
3) "My hair is difficult to handle." "Have you switched conditioners?"
Often this advice is given either in complete and total ignorance, or is based on very personal experience.
1) "I had a boyfriend who was mean to me once, and it was tough, but I just walked out that door."
2) "I had a bad headache and I took Excedrin and that cured it!"
3) "I had tons of trouble with my hair but then I tried X brand and it's perfect!"
Added bonus is when the advice-giver heaps on a good helping of anecdata. Super extra bonus is when the advice carries a nice hefty dose of judgment. And of course, triple word score if the anecdata is thirdhand, or based off almost no experience at all.
1) "I know tons of people with mean boyfriends and some of them just keep going back, but you've got to be strong." [Implying that the asker is weak.]
2) "My mom and my aunts all have terrible headaches a lot, and Excedrin works for them too. My mom read a study that most migraines are psychosomatic anyway so anything stronger is a waste." [Implying that if Excedrin doesn't stop the asker's migraines, she's only imagining the pain anyway. (Side issue not addressed: psychosomata. I know. Another post, another time. I'm discussing the inherent attitude in the statement.)]
3) "Well, I've only been using X brand for like a week, but I just know it's perfect. I can't wait for you to try it." [Implying that the adviser's experience is universal in all cases, and assuming that everyone wants to emulate him/her.]
I am assuming everyone reading this is aware of what's wrong with the example advice on a basic level, but I'll enumerate.
1) Many times, attempts to leave abusers are a) not supported by the abused person's family, b) not feasible for economic reasons, and c) result in fatalities when the abuser, thwarted, seeks terminal vengeance. It's not a question of being strong, it's a question of being rich, lucky, and thorough.
2) Migraines are not the same as headaches. Also, the asker's brain is likely to vary from the adviser's mother's brain significantly. Also, if it was something that over-the-counter pain medication marketed toward headache sufferers could alleviate, it is unlikely that the asker would still be complaining about it.
3) People have wildly varying hair types. What is perfect for one person may be an unmitigated disaster for another. Super double bonus if the asker is of a different race than the adviser.
But concern trolling doesn't stop there. Because all of us have made blunders like this, many good-naturedly. It is a part of being a human that you have a human brain which is not always capable of seeing all facets of every issue. Your well-meaning mouth (or fingers) may blurt out something completely, insultingly banal out of a simple impulse to respond with sympathy, without considering that you're insulting the asker's intelligence.
Concern trolling really gets into full swing when the asker replies. It can go several ways.
1) The asker is nice. "You know what, I tried that, and it didn't work / couldn't happen because X. But thanks for the advice!" The asker is assuming that you meant well, or is used to this kind of shit, sick of it, and wants you to shut up. Impossible to know which.
2) The asker is a bit chilly. "Thanks, but no!" Probably the second eventuality mentioned above.
3) The asker is completely insulted. "Good lord, do you think I'm an idiot?" From the asker's point of view, your suggestion is completely inappropriate and, worse, presupposes that the asker is not a person of reasonable intelligence.
There are non-concern-trolly ways of responding to each of these things, which a normal person, when confronted with the situation and having a modicum of common sense, would take.
1) "Oh gosh, of course you did. I'm so sorry it didn't work. I thought it couldn't hurt to ask if you'd tried it."
2) "Hm, I see. Well, good luck anyway!"
3) "Oh dear, I suppose I hadn't really thought that through. Well, I don't really know what to do, but I'm sorry for your trouble."
But here's where the concern troll shines.
1) "Are you sure you gave it a fair chance? Because it worked so well for me / the person I saw on the news. You should try again. It really is great." No troll is satisfied with a polite ending. If you can't get someone to snap or flounce, your time has been wasted. Finally the asker may be prodded into at least chilliness, whereupon the troll can whine that h/she "was just trying to help" and can go complain about how rude people are, etc.
2) "Well! Something crawled up your ass and died! I was just trying to help!" Victory!
3) Ditto, perhaps with more flaming. Victory! With any luck you can drag more people into the argument and make it into a proper flamewar. Ha ha!
The thing that differentiates concern trolls from just regular trolls is that they believe that they're genuinely trying to be helpful. They really can't understand why someone wouldn't be overjoyed at their advice, and upon hearing it, wouldn't run out to try it, and cry out, Thank God, CT, Thank GOD you were here to tell me about TV Medicine 101 or Lifetime Channel Relationship Principles! Because I never would have come up with it on my own!
Don't do this. Don't be a troll. I know some people who have a tendency to do this perfectly innocently. Normally they stop short of out-and-out trolldom, but it's still ugly.
So I have this to say. When you are going to offer someone advice, stop. Stop for a moment. Stop and think.
1) Did they ask for advice? If yes, proceed carefully. If no, hesitate further.
2) Is my advice going to be different? I.e., will they have seen the same ad as me? If this is a problem they have had for some time, is it likely that what I am suggesting is something that they will have encountered before, or will someone who has given this thirty seconds' consideration have already thought of this solution? If you think that a reasonable person is going to have already thought of something, hesitate before presenting it.
3) Do I know anything about the problem? Is this a problem I've had? If yes, THINK AGAIN: Is my problem really similar? Even if it seems similar, remember as you present your advice that it's possible that your situation isn't as similar as you think.
4) Does my advice contain some inherent judgment in it? Do I think this person is an idiot for being in this situation, and is that showing through? Do I think it's his/her own fault that he/she's suffering? Maybe, in this case, the best thing is to either keep your mouth shut, or simply offer non-specific condolences. There are a lot of things you may or may not know about the situation; if you are pretty sure that the problem is entirely that the asker is a complete idiot, then you're unlikely to improve the situation by pointing that out.
This post is brought to you by Little Miss Butthurt over on
fatshionista, who is still upset that I wasn't overjoyed at her suggestion that no plus-size woman could possibly wear a 32 bra band and I must be totally wrong. Honey, you got upset when I asked if you were concern trolling, but you've pretty much proved me right.
